His Holiness Patriarch Kirill's Christmas interview with Rossiya 1 TV channel
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On January 7, 2025, the feast of the Nativity of Christ, the traditional Christmas interview of His Holiness Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia was shown on the Rossiya 1 TV channel. The Primate of the Russian Orthodox Church answered questions from TASS Director General A.O. Kondrashov.


— Your Holiness, I bow low to you for having the traditional opportunity to talk with you on Christmas Eve.


— Thank you, Andrey Olegovich. For me, this is always an inspiring factor in a sense, because it requires some kind of mobilization of thought, and in the context of a real impromptu. Therefore, it is a good brain training, and, at the same time, a mindset on relevant topics.


— Let me start with the actual topic. It has been almost three years since we, along with the whole country, have been living in conditions of a special military operation, and it seems to me that we have already become dangerously accustomed to these constant front-line reports. Yes, we hear stories about heroes, but we also hear about losses. And after all, we entered this difficult period after not the best period associated with the pandemic either. Is that what it is? Can this be considered God's message to the Russian people, and how are we changing, and are we changing, or are we becoming callous and increasingly shutting ourselves off from these challenges, both physical and spiritual?


— Well, nothing bad can come from God. Bad things come from someone else, someone who is opposed to God, who is his opponent, and whom we call the devil. Of course, evil comes from this force — evil that is directed at the human person, and every person is subject to so-called temptations. If you delve into these temptations ontologically, there will be this force behind them. However, not everything should always be attributed to the dark force. Sometimes someone makes a mistake in their work and says, "Oh, you devil tempted me."; especially in church circles, such a saying is used in order to throw off responsibility. But if we talk about large—scale events, then in conflicts that are most dangerous for the entire human race, as well as in conflicts that arise out of the blue, in communication between people, we, believers, see the hand of a dark force. There is a God, and there is an opposite force. And those who do not believe in God or in the opposite force are people who are completely disarmed. In the sense that they try to solve everything on their own and often fail to find these forces, they become desperate because the problems are not being solved. But this is how families are often destroyed, this is how conflicts arise between generations. But a religious person, relying on his faith in God and especially on a very important tool that connects a person with God, that is, prayer, can and does attract the power of God, including to solve problems that are difficult to figure out on his own. And such a person gets the answers.; and if people did not receive an answer to prayers, no religion (which means "connection" in Latin), that is, no connection with God, no one would feel.


The answer to prayer is the strongest proof of the existence of God. And the fact that people are praying proves that this is a reality. This is not a myth, not some kind of misconception, not a mental aberration, but a reality. Prayer connects us to God, and this is the only force through which we can attract a higher Power to solve our earthly problems.


And the Lord responds. Sometimes, when meeting with someone who comes for advice - well, few people come to the Patriarch for such advice now — but when I was a priest, and even a diocesan bishop, many came. The questions were sometimes everyday, very, very simple, but not easy for a person! And when, in response to all this, I had to say: "You still turn to the Lord, pray," some asked: "Is it convenient? With such a simple everyday question, a very simple, everyday one?" I've always said, "It's convenient to ask God any questions, but He'll answer some and not others."


When a person, especially a modern one, combines his education, his experience, his knowledge with a deep religious faith, he becomes very, very strong. If he relies only on his knowledge, then knowledge can fail, it often happens. Besides, knowledge does not add spiritual power. Knowledge can equip you rationally, help you solve some rational tasks. But what most often breaks the soul, what knocks a person out of himself, what lowers the quality of life, rarely depends on knowledge. It is in these areas that it is very important for a person to have the skill of communicating with God, and through this skill each person will eventually make sure that heaven is responding, that this is not a myth, that God is present in a person's life.


— That's exactly where there is no faith today, so it's there, on the front line, as we all say, "behind the ribbon." Isn't this a challenge for the Church too? How many priests are feeding soldiers right at the front today! And how many, together with the volunteers, demonstrate a completely different level of social service — take the Kursk and Belgorod regions. We often hear: "The war has made us completely callous, cold, cynical, and emotionless." And others say, "Well, look at that! Since the time of the Great Patriotic War, we have probably not had such sincerity, such willingness to help each other!" But what changes do you see in society, among priests and in the flock?


— Well, I can't take measurements of the whole society. Our society has many faces: there are believers and non-believers, there are people of different religious views, there are urban intellectuals, there are people living on earth. Therefore, there can be no definite answer. But at least I can talk about what I observe among believers and among those who may not be very churchly, belonging to the urban intelligentsia, with whom I also have the opportunity to communicate. This problem does not leave anyone indifferent. Well, each person reacts in their own way. For some, this problem is irrelevant — it's somewhere far away and doesn't affect either me or my family. But statesmen, of course, are very worried and are really trying to make sense of what is happening to our people and our country today. And these are not only statesmen, but also people in general who are able to use a broader yardstick to measure what is happening in our lives. And, indeed, there are great dangers. In one of the prayers in which we ask the Lord for peace and the cessation of hostilities, there are these words: for many will turn against us. Indeed, a lot of people are turning against our country today, and I once asked myself this question: why? We are Europeans, like those Europeans, we have practically the same culture, a very significant common civilizational path. Is that why it's like this? But because here we are not talking about civilization, not about civilizational values. Here we are talking about the fact that certain political forces, which in many ways managed to subjugate a significant part of the globe, stumbled on Russia.


Firstly, because, as some ordinary people say, "leave us alone, we are under the Protection of the Mother of God!" These are very simple people, while others say, "We have an experience that others don't have. We emerged victorious from two world wars. We have lived through the most difficult trials associated with the revolutionary upheavals in our own country. We have preserved our people, we have preserved our civilization, we have preserved our faith." And this answer is correct. In a sense, Russia has a very special experience. And today, people who come to us from the West, friendly people who want to understand what is happening in Russia, are most surprised at how alive the religious faith is in our people. And this is indeed a very striking phenomenon. If we were talking about some underdeveloped country where various kinds of prejudices persist, including those related to religious cults, well, everything is clear, the inhabitants are not sufficiently developed. But we are not at the lowest level of intellectual and cultural development compared to the West, which is becoming more and more godless, and in some ways we surpass it. And this is the challenge. "What's going on with the Russians? Listen, they're building temples there! How much?! Are you planning to build 400 churches in Moscow?" "Yes, maybe more." - "How is it, everything is closing here! Everything is being redeveloped here — at best for mosques, at worst for entertainment venues!" That's what's happening today, and in many ways distinguishes the sick Western civilization from a very strong, young and developing Russian civilization. And our strength lies in the fact that we have combined the heavenly with the earthly, the spiritual with the material, faith with scientific knowledge. This is not happening on some small geographical site, not in some artificial conditions, but on the scale of the largest country in the country, with a large population and, of course, a very special heroic story.


That's what worries me. Because we are a civilizational challenge for so many people in the West who have renounced faith and the basic tenets of human morality. I'm not going to talk much about the terrible tendency to change gender and so on — it all just smells like the apocalypse. But there it is recognized as the norm! And we say, "This is not the norm, this is a sin! It's a sin, it's against God's law! We cannot and will never allow this to happen as long as we believe in God and as long as our culture is linked to our thousand-year-old spiritual tradition."


This is where the real conflict takes place. This warfare, as the Apostle Paul says, is not against flesh and blood, but against the powers, the rulers of the darkness of this world, the spirits of wickedness in high places (Ephesians 6:12). This conflict is ideological, in a sense spiritual and even religious.

— Maybe they are afraid of our spiritual dominance?


— Dominance and example. There are also many believers who suffer from what is happening. And if we take Latin America, the Catholic world — there is an extremely high level of religiosity! What is happening in the West scares everyone. How can it be — countries that once had so much sanctity, so many manifestations of religious feelings, suddenly torn to pieces, building some unknown civilization. And we serve as an example for others, an alternative model of civilizational development. That is where we pose a danger — that might be why many have risen against us.


— But, unfortunately, we still remain very similar to those strange civilizations you just mentioned in that we have a low birth rate. The past year, 2024, was declared the Year of the Family. But if we sum up the results, what kind of year was it overall? What is happening with the typical, average Russian family today?


— The statistics are grim. Of course, I do not have the latest specific numbers, so I will not measure anything in figures, but the trend is very sad. There are few families with more than three children. And if there are only two children — there is no reproduction. A husband, a wife, two children — that means two people will replace the departed; there must be at least three children.


In our family, there were three children. We lived in a single 19-square-meter room in a communal apartment, and there were no problems! Believe me: there were never any communal issues, no one felt cramped, even though I slept on a folding cot, and someone else slept on some chest. The parents slept on a bed, you know, with some nickel-plated bolts. But there was no sense of discomfort! Why? Because we lived in real harmony! There was a special love between the parents. Maybe it had to do with the fact that my father had been imprisoned. My mother waited for him while he was in prison, they went through such trials. She used to visit him in Kolyma when he was serving his sentence in a labor camp; all of this was tied to an element of heroism. And therefore, when the blessed time of life together came, it was not overshadowed by conflicts, suspicions, or, even more so, infidelity or other circumstances that undermine and destroy the foundations of family life. That’s why the family was happy, though materially poor, and the communal living conditions were terrible. But despite that, even judging by my current emotions, you can see that my memories of childhood are the brightest.


— It is evident. Your Holiness, you have repeatedly stated that we have a problem with neo-paganism. Do you not think that people turn to it because they cannot get answers to their questions? And overall, is the Church managing to keep people away from this misfortune today?

 

— There are no intellectual premises, no intellectual reasons to turn to paganism. Paganism is, to put it in linguistic terms, pluperfect — a time long past, completely ended. Humanity has gone through such significant stages of cultural and religious development since then that turning to paganism can only appeal to either a person with a disturbed mind or someone who is creating a certain quasi-religious, pseudo-religious movement aimed at opposing true religiosity. And such an intent may indeed exist, especially given that a large percentage of our youth is insufficiently churched. Examples from pagan epics — heroism, courage, cruelty, and so on — can indeed inspire some people. But if that is the case, it is very sad. I am deeply convinced that an educated, intelligent person, someone who knows the history of their country, their culture, cannot go down this path, even if they are not deeply religious. And for someone who is churched, it is absolutely inadmissible. I think this is just another fad that will come and go because it lacks intellectual or genuinely historical roots. However, even some, forgive me, nonsense that temporarily captivates society can sometimes have very dangerous consequences.


— Look at what kind of nonsense accompanies this problem now. We are witnessing an explosive growth in popularity, a surge in the market of occult services. Can you imagine, before the New Year, I personally saw an ad where well-known fortune-tellers offered to come to corporate parties for 160,000 rubles for an hour and a half. Plus various sorcerers, witches, magicians, tarot readers… And, most strikingly, companies organizing corporate events eagerly invite them. Moreover, I have acquaintances who say, “Well, fortune-tellers aren’t serious, of course, but fortune-telling on Christmas isn’t sinful, right? Let’s have some fun.” What do you think about that?


— You cannot play games with the devil. Fortune-telling involves a dark force. While miracles involve the Divine power and grace, fortune-telling involves the power of the devil. The devil can deceive a person, give them certain handouts: “Look, it worked out, how wonderful!” But if a person becomes drawn into the orbit of dark influence, they enter the realm of the rule of evil, which will ultimately end in personal tragedy for that person. The devil can bring neither joy, nor benefit, nor prosperity to a person, but to lure someone into his sphere of influence, he uses such tricks. Therefore, it is categorically forbidden to engage in fortune-telling or sorcery. Some see it as national folklore, but behind this folklore lies an appeal to dark forces. A person invokes the devil, asking for his help — and he will help in such a way that they will not know what hit them! If our pious ancestors managed to overcome such temptations — for they, too, had them, girls used to practice fortune-telling during Christmas, but eventually, it all faded away — then surely the enlightened Russians of the 21st century will not fall for this temptation and seek to know their future through the involvement of dark forces? I strongly advise against it — it is an extremely dangerous game! And I am speaking not out of thin air, but based on facts. Those who become involved with dark forces do not immediately experience something terrible; some time has to pass, but these experiments never go without consequences.


I recall my pastoral work in Saint Petersburg, back then Leningrad. I once had a conversation with a woman, although the details have faded from my memory, the essence remains. Her question was this: “It seemed that everything was fine with my husband and me — financially stable, good jobs — and then suddenly, everything started falling apart. First, my husband began cheating, then he left, and something started happening with the children…” I asked, “How can you explain this? Everything was fine, you had been married for so many years.” She replied, “I can’t explain it at all. Maybe it’s unrelated, but there were times when I started visiting a fortune-teller, and she predicted certain things. Could it be because of that?” I told her, “The first thought that comes to my mind is that if such a happy life, with a loving couple and children, suddenly fell apart, it must have been caused by a powerful external blow. And only a dark force can strike with such power.” Therefore, may God protect people from fortune-telling, even as a form of entertainment. Do not attract dark forces! They are already close enough to us. When asked how this force is expelled, the Lord said, “Only by prayer and fasting” (see Matt. 17:21). Through prayer, we invoke Divine power, and through fasting, we impose certain self-restraints to mobilize our spiritual strength.

 

— We should now drive away all these dark forces at the front, on the other side. Any war will, of course, end with peace, and we all dream of peace — naturally, through our victory. But look, we must understand that unity will not come as quickly as peace. Hatred and distrust towards each other will remain for a long time. How can we bring peace back into people's hearts? And when I say "people," I mean both us and ordinary Ukrainians, for after all, we are one people.


— Well, first of all, among our Ukrainian brothers and sisters, there are many people who suffer from this conflict just as much as we do and who long for its end. True, not all of them dare to express these wishes openly, because it is dangerous and could lead to state repression, but I know that many sincerely desire a speedy peace. Moreover, there are mixed marriages — sometimes the husband is there, and the wife is here — and beyond that, this factor alone is crucial in connecting our peoples, along with our shared culture. Many studied in Moscow and Leningrad universities, and our people also either worked or studied there — the ties are immense! The mere fact that it was so easy, despite these ties, to stir up hatred and escalate the situation into armed conflict shows that enormous efforts were made to mislead the Ukrainian people. But I believe that this delusion is temporary, like anesthesia. A person wakes up from a drug-induced sleep and begins to return to reality, questioning the visions they experienced under the influence of anesthesia. The same will happen here. People will realize that this was an illusion, that it was indeed an operation by external forces aimed at breaking apart a united people — I am not afraid to say it, for we all emerged from the baptismal font of Kyiv. However, for this awakening to happen as quickly as possible, it is important — and I say this openly — for the political orientation of the Ukrainian authorities to change. After all, the signals for hostility toward Russia and the portrayal of Russia as an enemy come from there, not from the grassroots level. I very much hope that the spiritual and cultural potential embedded in our peoples, united by a shared history and faith, will ultimately prevail over these temporary but dangerous political delusions. More than delusions — political crimes, which have led to a fratricidal war and a conflict between two brotherly nations.

 

— Your Holiness, another topic. You were among the first in our country to point out the problem of migration — and did so at a high level. You highlighted the threat of altering Russia’s cultural identity due to the influx of millions of people, many of whom do not even speak Russian. On the other hand, we understand that our economy today cannot do without these people, many of whom are decent, hardworking individuals. And now serious proposals are being made to regulate uncontrolled migration. In your opinion, what is the right solution here?


— Well, it is difficult for me to provide an assessment from an economic or even a political perspective, but here’s what I would like to say. We used to live without migrants, didn’t we? What we truly cannot do without, from the perspective of excessive profits for employers, is very cheap labor, which allows them to enrich themselves and accumulate capital. That, perhaps, is something some people cannot live without. All these demands to attract cheap labor come from those who do not want to lose part of their income. But if we enrich ourselves at the expense of others, we are repeating the grave mistake of colonial countries. Therefore, for national unity — even if the nation is ethnically diverse — it is crucial that there is no situation where these ethnic groups belong to entirely different cultures, where migrants see it as their duty to preserve everything they brought with them, often defending it in direct confrontation with local residents. Thus, we must approach this issue with great caution. Incidentally, many of those who come from Central Asia behave well and work diligently, so why offend such people? They should not be mistreated. However, in my view, there must still be state control concerning proportions, and labor should be attracted primarily in sectors of the economy where it is truly needed and in volumes that are genuinely required, while also providing somewhat humane conditions. Migration does not necessarily mean permanent settlement in Russia. All of this requires state regulation. But we must also show understanding for the needs of those who come here. They should not be treated as second-class citizens or be forced to live in poverty. Nevertheless, the use of migrant labor should not pose a threat to our national identity. There must be a balance.

— Your Holiness, as a final question, may I ask you to rise above your position as the Primate of the Russian Orthodox Church and, on the eve of this bright holiday, share a message with all the citizens of our country, regardless of their faith? What would that message be?


— Let’s ask ourselves: what is the most important thing for us as a people? Indeed, our nation includes people of different religions, different nationalities, and perhaps even different life goals. Do we want to remain such a nation? I think most people will say: yes, of course, since this is our reality, we do. Moreover, we may even draw strength from this diversity. Therefore, we must make our life together internally harmonious. On one hand, the state’s policy should aim at creating laws that balance all the forces operating within our society. On the other hand, justice must be ensured, and the historical, spiritual, and cultural foundations that shaped the Russian people must be protected. We must not risk these foundations in any way! The presence of people of different religions and cultures should not be a challenge or a risk to our national identity. For that to be the case, laws, proper law enforcement practices, and, of course, an appropriate educational process are needed. Those who come here should become friends of Russia, and ideally, its loyal sons and daughters. Achieving this requires considerable effort from the state, public organizations, and, as for the Church, it is already on this path, and I hope we will continue to follow it.


— On the bright holiday of Christmas, what should a Russian person have here, in their heart, in their soul?


— Joy.


— How is it different from merriment?


— Merriment is when you laugh, but afterward, as they say, comes an emotional hangover. Something funny, jokes, laughter all evening — but when you leave, there’s emptiness in your soul. But joy is something that stays for a long time. Joy is what we turn to in moments of sorrow. We recall those joyful states. It happens in family life, in relationships between spouses, between relatives, between colleagues, and between soldiers who defend their homeland together. Joy is primarily the result of how we interact with each other. Of course, joy comes from the Lord, which is why we all need to believe in God and put an end to this shameful chapter of atheism in our history. Let there remain a few individuals, philosophers who say, “I still don’t believe!” — that’s their business. But faith must be an organic part of our national consciousness. Listen, our country stood on this faith for a thousand years! Then some commoners and intellectuals came along and started saying that there is no God. We need to turn that page! A person cannot live without faith. With faith in God comes hope, with faith in God come moral principles that, when followed, make us happy. No ideology teaches us how to be happy — it is faith that teaches us happiness, first and foremost through a personal relationship with God. Therefore, deep religious faith is an essential condition for human happiness and peaceful coexistence.
The second thing, of course, is preserving our cultural traditions, protecting our cultural code. Under no circumstances should we lose ourselves as a people amid globalization. And if we look at it from a more worldly perspective, it is also important to maintain order in the country. We must fight against all forms of crime, protect the weak, and shield our youth from harmful and dangerous influences. That’s it, in a few words.


— Your Holiness, I sincerely congratulate you on the holiday!


— Thank you.

 

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